More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

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More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby Chipster27 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:03 am

Here's my situation, and I've scoured the threads with no luck. I'm swimming in a virtual sea of resistance, line diameters, vols, temps, and pressures, LOL.
My set up:
Jockey box with:
50' 3/8 OD SS coil
5.5' 3/8 ID PVC tubing from keg to coil
6" 3/8" ID tubing from coil to faucet.
Faucet typically sits 18-24" above center of the keg
Keg of Coors Light 2.2 vols (?) in an ice/water bath, probably 36ish degrees
Coils in an ice/water bath.

Resistances are as follows:
Coil - 10 PSI (50'*.2)
Beer/faucet line resistance .6 PSI (6'*.11)
Faucet height 1 PSI (2"*.5)
Lines balanced to 11.6 PSI

Beer @ 36ish = 8-9 pounds

What PSI should I set the regulator at? The company I bought the jockey box says that with those lines the regulator should be set at 10-15 PSI. I do that and all I seem to get is foam. Tons of it, like a full cup.

I've done the math, I think, and it just doesn't add up. Should I run smaller lines to create more resistance? But then I'l need to crank up the PSI to compensate for it and risk over carbing the keg.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I've owned this jockey box for 10 years and it's never seemed to be dialed in.
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Re: More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby pclemon » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:11 pm

I think you're over-thinking it.

I used to do a jockey box for parties and such - assume you're doing the same. The reason I specify that is that putting the beer under pressure at an undesirable pressure (high or low) for a day or so isn't going to be a big deal. If you left the keg under too high of a pressure for a couple of days you would ultimately over-carbonate the beer.

With all the line you've got there you should have plenty of resistance. Assuming the keg is properly carbonated and has settled for a little bit prior to tapping I would hook everything up with the CO2 turned all the way down. If you do that, then open the tap, what happens?

If you have beer coming out fast and/or foam you do not have enough resistance in the system and would suggest going to a smaller diameter coil.

If the beer just barely comes out turn up the gas 2 PSI or so at a time until you reach a good flow. If it gets to the point that you need 12+PSI to push it, you want less resistance in the system.

Keep in mind that although you're keeping your keg cold and the beer in the jockey box is cold, you have a segment of line between the two that is warm. The standing beer in that will get warm relatively quick and the CO2 that's in solution will bubble out so you end up with a slug of warm, over-pressurized beer that will leads to part of the pour being foamy. To the extent you can, make this length of line as short as possible.
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Re: More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby Brewtime » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:00 am

pclemon wrote:I think you're over-thinking it.

I used to do a jockey box for parties and such - assume you're doing the same. The reason I specify that is that putting the beer under pressure at an undesirable pressure (high or low) for a day or so isn't going to be a big deal. If you left the keg under too high of a pressure for a couple of days you would ultimately over-carbonate the beer.

With all the line you've got there you should have plenty of resistance. Assuming the keg is properly carbonated and has settled for a little bit prior to tapping I would hook everything up with the CO2 turned all the way down. If you do that, then open the tap, what happens?

If you have beer coming out fast and/or foam you do not have enough resistance in the system and would suggest going to a smaller diameter coil.

If the beer just barely comes out turn up the gas 2 PSI or so at a time until you reach a good flow. If it gets to the point that you need 12+PSI to push it, you want less resistance in the system.

Keep in mind that although you're keeping your keg cold and the beer in the jockey box is cold, you have a segment of line between the two that is warm. The standing beer in that will get warm relatively quick and the CO2 that's in solution will bubble out so you end up with a slug of warm, over-pressurized beer that will leads to part of the pour being foamy. To the extent you can, make this length of line as short as possible.


in other words if you are serving commercial beer crank down on the PSI because the keg is already pressurized. That has been my experience.
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Re: More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby BrewinMoe » Wed May 20, 2015 8:02 am

Chipster27 wrote:Here's my situation, and I've scoured the threads with no luck. I'm swimming in a virtual sea of resistance, line diameters, vols, temps, and pressures, LOL.
My set up:
Jockey box with:
50' 3/8 OD SS coil
5.5' 3/8 ID PVC tubing from keg to coil
6" 3/8" ID tubing from coil to faucet.
Faucet typically sits 18-24" above center of the keg
Keg of Coors Light 2.2 vols (?) in an ice/water bath, probably 36ish degrees
Coils in an ice/water bath.

Resistances are as follows:
Coil - 10 PSI (50'*.2)
Beer/faucet line resistance .6 PSI (6'*.11)
Faucet height 1 PSI (2"*.5)
Lines balanced to 11.6 PSI

Beer @ 36ish = 8-9 pounds

What PSI should I set the regulator at? The company I bought the jockey box says that with those lines the regulator should be set at 10-15 PSI. I do that and all I seem to get is foam. Tons of it, like a full cup.

I've done the math, I think, and it just doesn't add up. Should I run smaller lines to create more resistance? But then I'l need to crank up the PSI to compensate for it and risk over carbing the keg.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I've owned this jockey box for 10 years and it's never seemed to be dialed in.


OK after a quick review of you spec's I saw the problem. Now according to some set formulas found on the "beerman" site the guy covers a whole host of things related to despencing your kegged beer. One would be you need resistance just before entering the faucet. So your instructed to employ 3/16" ID hose at that point, and the length of that hose is factored into the formula in order to bring the pressure down to a level so as to just allow minimal positive pressure/flow. Its been a while since I visited the site but it had all the information I needed to build my large kegerator. You want to set your regulator at just slightly over that which allows it to just spill out of the faucet. Most of the time you should expect to run w/o live pressure. Adding some only occationaly, and never just leave it on. If your jockey box is useing as much tubing as you say it is it will absorb Co2 into solution if it sets for prolonged periods. Good luck
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Re: More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby BrewinMoe » Wed May 20, 2015 8:07 am

BrewinMoe wrote:
Chipster27 wrote:Here's my situation, and I've scoured the threads with no luck. I'm swimming in a virtual sea of resistance, line diameters, vols, temps, and pressures, LOL.
My set up:
Jockey box with:
50' 3/8 OD SS coil
5.5' 3/8 ID PVC tubing from keg to coil
6" 3/8" ID tubing from coil to faucet.
Faucet typically sits 18-24" above center of the keg
Keg of Coors Light 2.2 vols (?) in an ice/water bath, probably 36ish degrees
Coils in an ice/water bath.

Resistances are as follows:
Coil - 10 PSI (50'*.2)
Beer/faucet line resistance .6 PSI (6'*.11)
Faucet height 1 PSI (2"*.5)
Lines balanced to 11.6 PSI

Beer @ 36ish = 8-9 pounds

What PSI should I set the regulator at? The company I bought the jockey box says that with those lines the regulator should be set at 10-15 PSI. I do that and all I seem to get is foam. Tons of it, like a full cup.

I've done the math, I think, and it just doesn't add up. Should I run smaller lines to create more resistance? But then I'l need to crank up the PSI to compensate for it and risk over carbing the keg.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I've owned this jockey box for 10 years and it's never seemed to be dialed in.


OK after a quick review of you spec's I saw the problem. Now according to some set formulas found on the "beerman" site the guy covers a whole host of things related to despencing your kegged beer. One would be you need resistance just before entering the faucet. So your instructed to employ 3/16" ID hose at that point, and the length of that hose is factored into the formula in order to bring the pressure down to a level so as to just allow minimal positive pressure/flow. Its been a while since I visited the site but it had all the information I needed to build my large kegerator. You want to set your regulator at just slightly over that which allows it to just spill out of the faucet. Most of the time you should expect to run w/o live pressure. Adding some only occationaly, and never just leave it on. If your jockey box is useing as much tubing as you say it is it will absorb Co2 into solution if it sets for prolonged periods. Good luck
Moe

Opppps! My bad I meant "KEGMAN" site
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Re: More Beer jockey box frustrations/foam

Postby Albionwood » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:24 am

I had the same problem Saturday, with commercial kegs. I have never had any trouble dispensing homebrew, and indeed we dispensed 3 kegs of that with no problem. But all 3 of the commercial boys foamed like mad. Our setup included a jockey box with 2 ss coils (I think 50') and about 4' of 5/16 vinyl from keg (Sanke) to box. Two kegs were cold at the start but left unchilled during the day (ambient temps in the 70s). I started at 10 psi, just barely pushing beer through the tap, and worked up to about 20 psi, at which point the problem was worse... Nowhere did we get a halfway decent pour. I kept expecting the kegs to "settle down" as we drained them, but it was foam all the way to the bottom.

We also had a third keg on a single-tap tower. That one only had about 6' of 5/16 tubing, and was on the same gas as the other two, so not surprised it foamed badly - I needed a separate regulator for that.
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