#1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

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#1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

Postby stardust » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:30 am

#1, I Actually found Koji-kin at a brew store in Columbia SC (I was in Columbia anyway, it's 150 miles from me). I'm trying to figure out the amount of komi-koi to to use for the sake. Bob's taylor made guide uses 40 oz of cold mountain Koji. The koji-kin instructions start out with 400 Grams (0.9 lbs of rice).
When the product is complete (komi-koi), is it important to use exactly 40 oz of it?

#2, Even though my plums won't be ready until late June at the earliest, how much plum puree should I add? - "If you intend to make a fruit-flavored sake by adding fruit juice or puree, this would be the appropriate time to add it"
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Re: #1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

Postby Taylor-MadeAK » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:35 pm

stardust wrote:#1, I Actually found Koji-kin at a brew store in Columbia SC (I was in Columbia anyway, it's 150 miles from me). I'm trying to figure out the amount of komi-koi to to use for the sake. Bob's taylor made guide uses 40 oz of cold mountain Koji. The koji-kin instructions start out with 400 Grams (0.9 lbs of rice).
When the product is complete (komi-koi), is it important to use exactly 40 oz of it?

The koji:rice:water ratio traditionally used to make sake is 25:100:160. That means for every x amount (pounds, cups, doesn't matter) of rice you use, you'll need to add an additional 25% of that amount in kome-koji. For my recipe, this calls for 10 pounds of rice, 2.5 pounds koji (25% of 10 lbs), and 2 gallons of water (16 pounds = 160% of 10 lbs). If you're making your own kome-koji, this means you will need to buy an additional 1 pound of rice and turn it into koji before you start the rest of your sake making process. Rice expands almost 300% when cooked, by the way. Thats why the instructions say to start with only 400g of rice: by the time you've steamed it and grown koji on it, you end up with 2.5 - 3 pounds of kome-koji.

Yes, its important that you use exactly the amounts stated in each step of the process. Use less and you run the risk of not being able to saccharify all of your rice, which is bad. Use more and you may end up with a sweeter sake, which isn't necessarily bad but koji to be used to adjust the final body of the sake should be reserved until the yodan step.

stardust wrote:#2, Even though my plums won't be ready until late June at the earliest, how much plum puree should I add? - "If you intend to make a fruit-flavored sake by adding fruit juice or puree, this would be the appropriate time to add it"

I have no personal experience with fruit-flavored sakes, so I'm afraid you're on your own here. I do know that what we know as "plum wine" is usually sweetened grape wine with ume syrup added to it. The "real" form of it is known as umeshu and is made from unripe Japanese ume plums, sugar, and shōchū - a Japanese distilled spirit. A recipe for the latter can be found in my FAQ.
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Re: #1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

Postby stardust » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:19 pm

Thats why the instructions say to start with only 400g of rice: by the time you've steamed it and grown koji on it, you end up with 2.5 - 3 pounds of kome-koji.
:wink: ok then 3 pounds equals 48 oz. and 2.5 pounds equals 40 oz. My koji-kin pkg says I can freeze any left over kome-koji.
Is this is true, could I use it to make more kome-koi when it is thawed. Or use it immediately to start another batch of kome koji.

Like ... when one makes sourdough bread starter ...Blend a cup of warm water and a cup of flour... keep the starter in a warm place; 70-80 degrees uncovered blah blah feed the starter every day for up to 1 week When your starter develops a bubbly froth, it is done. Then Keep the starter in your fridge, with a lid on it. Allow a little breathing space in the lid.The yeast and bacteria form a stable symbiotic relationship, and (as long as you keep the starter fed) can live for centuries, a thriving colony of microorganisms.

I have no personal experience with fruit-flavored sakes, so I'm afraid you're on your own here.

ok then, maybe I will make up a plum sake recipe that incorporates this recipe, when the plum's are ready
Plum Wine Recipe -
5 lbs / 2,250 grams plums
3 lbs / 1,350 grams sugar
8 pints / 1 gallon water
1 teaspoon citric acid (my plums are on the sour side and since your sake recipe says no citric acid I will leave this out.
Wine yeast

Wash and cut up the fruit and place in a fermentation bucket. Pour over the boiling water and cover bucket and leave for four days. Stir twice daily and then strain on to the sugar, stirring vigorously until all the sugar has dissolved. Add the yeast and cover. Stir regularly for five days and then pour into fermentation bottle, fit airlock and leave to finish fermenting.

When fermentation has ceased, rack the wine into a clean jar and place in a cooler environment and leave for a further few months. Rack again if necessary and leave until the wine is stable and then bottle. This wine can take up to 12 months to mature.
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Re: #1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

Postby Taylor-MadeAK » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:56 pm

stardust wrote:ok then 3 pounds equals 48 oz. and 2.5 pounds equals 40 oz. My koji-kin pkg says I can freeze any left over kome-koji.
Is this is true, could I use it to make more kome-koi when it is thawed. Or use it immediately to start another batch of kome koji.

Like ... when one makes sourdough bread starter ...Blend a cup of warm water and a cup of flour... keep the starter in a warm place; 70-80 degrees uncovered blah blah feed the starter every day for up to 1 week When your starter develops a bubbly froth, it is done. Then Keep the starter in your fridge, with a lid on it. Allow a little breathing space in the lid.The yeast and bacteria form a stable symbiotic relationship, and (as long as you keep the starter fed) can live for centuries, a thriving colony of microorganisms.

Koji isn't like a sourdough starter. Sourdough starters are cultures of various acid-producing microorganisms. Koji is a mold which, while in some ways similar, doesn't thrive and reproduce in an immersed environment like lactobacillus. In order for it to reproduce, it must go to spore. In order for it to spore, it must be relatively dry. Could you use this to keep a strain of koji going? You bet. Just let some dry out and go to spore (it will turn yellow-green as it produces spores), put it in a mesh tea ball, and use it to shake spores onto the rice you want to inoculate. This, I've read, is how koji-kin is produced, though I've never tried it myself. YMMV.

stardust wrote:1 teaspoon citric acid (my plums are on the sour side and since your sake recipe says no citric acid I will leave this out.

Citric acid is a preservative and an antioxidant, and I prefer to leave it out when doing a yamahai moto style sake because I feel it would just inhibit the yeast by bonding to any present oxygen before the yeast can get at it. In the case of your plum wine, I'd leave it out because plums have plenty of ascorbic acid, which will be present in the liquor because you cut the fruit up. Good luck with that recipe, by the way. It's not something I'd ever try because I'm not a big fan of plum wine or plums in general (though I love prunes...I'm weird like that).
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Re: #1 koji-kin #2 plum sake

Postby bababa3216 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:44 pm

couple of Koji-kin packs.

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