Diacetyl in APA

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Diacetyl in APA

Postby Malt_Man_John » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:57 pm

I entered an APA recently in a competition. I thought it tasted a little off, but couldn't identify the issue.
Well, the judges tasted diacetyl, and I believe they are likely correct. What I don't get is how did it happen? I'm an experienced brewer. Was careful with sanitation, and used a fresh packet of US-05. The fermentation went well, temp controlled, etc. I never heard of diacetyl being an issue with this yeast. I thought that was mostly a concern with lager yeasts.

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:23 am

Malt_Man_John wrote:I entered an APA recently in a competition. I thought it tasted a little off, but couldn't identify the issue.
Well, the judges tasted diacetyl, and I believe they are likely correct. What I don't get is how did it happen? I'm an experienced brewer. Was careful with sanitation, and used a fresh packet of US-05. The fermentation went well, temp controlled, etc. I never heard of diacetyl being an issue with this yeast. I thought that was mostly a concern with lager yeasts.

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!


I've gotten really heavy diacetyl with 05, along with the peach/apricot character it has. So much so that I don't use it any longer. But don't rule out sanitation, either. How long did you ferment and at what temps?
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Malt_Man_John » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:08 pm

Denny, thanks. I didn't take detailed brewing notes, but I believe temp was
about 67. I let it sit in primary 12 days and kegged.

If you say 05 has given you these issues, would it apply as well to the two liquid
cousins, WLP001 and WY1056?
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:17 pm

Malt_Man_John wrote:Denny, thanks. I didn't take detailed brewing notes, but I believe temp was
about 67. I let it sit in primary 12 days and kegged.

If you say 05 has given you these issues, would it apply as well to the two liquid
cousins, WLP001 and WY1056?


Nope, none at all with those. People think those 3 are closer than they really are, just because of common ancestry. On Experimental Brewing, we showed that there's a difference between 001 and 1056, with most people preferring 1056. Marshall has recently shown a difference between 001 and 05, with most people preferring 001. So, in order of tested preference, it's 1056, then 001, then 05.
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Malt_Man_John » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Now that is info worth knowing. I've long wondered about that. Only problem for me is that the local brew supply shops have largely switched over to WL yeasts. Which means your fav 1450 may get scarce locally. But thanks much for the info.
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:00 am

Malt_Man_John wrote:Now that is info worth knowing. I've long wondered about that. Only problem for me is that the local brew supply shops have largely switched over to WL yeasts. Which means your fav 1450 may get scarce locally. But thanks much for the info.


You're very welcome!
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby tookalisten » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:20 am

Denny - do you have a preferred dry yeast over 05?
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:38 am

tookalisten wrote:Denny - do you have a preferred dry yeast over 05?


34/70 for one, but it's not the same thing. Don't care of either Notty or 04. I'll use 05 if I'm desperate and in an emergency situation, but not by choice.
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Malt_Man_John » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:10 pm

34/70 for one, but it's not the same thing. Don't care of either Notty or 04. I'll use 05 if I'm desperate and in an emergency situation, but not by choice.


34/70 however is a lager yeast. What dry ale yeast would you prefer over 05?
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:43 pm

Malt_Man_John wrote:
34/70 for one, but it's not the same thing. Don't care of either Notty or 04. I'll use 05 if I'm desperate and in an emergency situation, but not by choice.


34/70 however is a lager yeast. What dry ale yeast would you prefer over 05?


That's why I said it's not the same thing. To tell you the truth, I can't think of a dry ale yeast I like better. Whatever it's faults, 05 is about the best IMO. But everyone has different tastes.
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Malt_Man_John » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:35 pm

Denny, is there some difficulty the yeast producers would have in creating a dried version of your fav 1450? Also always wanted to ask if any commercial or craft brewery uses it or has used it.
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Re: Diacetyl in APA

Postby Denny » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:00 am

Malt_Man_John wrote:Denny, is there some difficulty the yeast producers would have in creating a dried version of your fav 1450? Also always wanted to ask if any commercial or craft brewery uses it or has used it.


I don't know. But it's banked with Wyeast and they don't make dry yeast, so a dry manufacturer would have to "steal" it the way they did to make US05. Based on what I know of the legal hassle that followed that one, I don't expect it to happen. And I have heard of a few breweries using it, but can't recall the names.
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