Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

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Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby carpediem50 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:36 pm

I was making an IPA from a kit from grape and granary. Everything took a little longer than I expected. I also forgot to get ice or refrigerate the water to add once the boil was done, so it was taking forever to cool. It was late, and I was exhausted, so I went ahead and pitched the yeast when the wort at the top of the fermenting bucket was about 90º. I'm SURE the wort was cooler at the bottom because the bucket had been sitting in a sink full of ice water for an hour by then.

I was using liquid Wyeast 1098 (I think that's the number). Yes, I popped the envelope inside the envelope, and it had a good 3.5 hours to 'swell' before I pitched it.

Think I'll be ok? I was just so tired and sick of waiting, I knowingly made the mistake so I could get to bed.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby beerrun » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:40 pm

As you know, you definitly pitched too warm, by about 25 degrees. The yeast will probably survive but you will likely have some off flavors. It is ok to cover the wort and leave it over night to cool if you need to. I've done that on many occassions.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby pclemon » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:41 pm

Beer will be OK, it just won't be its best.

Provided you're good about sanitation practices it would have been OK - even preferable - to not pitch the yeast until the morning when the wort had cooled to the proper temp. The yeast would have been fine in the packet for that long. Assuming you used a wyeast activator? If using a propogator you really should have made a starter first.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby Brandon » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:47 pm

Hope you have some Tylenol or Advil to help with the headaches
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby BrewBock » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:48 pm

Brandon wrote:Hope you have some Tylenol or Advil to help with the headaches


oh shhoootttttt....wtf man....... this is too funny....
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby Brandon » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:52 pm

yeah i'm a laugh a minute
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby carpediem50 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:54 pm

Brandon wrote:Hope you have some Tylenol or Advil to help with the headaches


huh?

Yes, I used the activator with the Wyeast. I didn't even think of leaving it covered over night and pitching in the morning - since the yeast package said let swell for 3 hours, I figured it needed to be pitched somewhere in that timeframe.

If someone could explain, specifically, why won't this beer be 'the best'? I just don't know that much I guess. All I really know is it is the yeasts' job to eat the sugar and release alcohol and CO2... so from what I know, the yeast either live and do their job, or they don't, and I'll have to add more yeast... I didn't realize it would effect flavor.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby BrewBum » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:59 pm

Optimal ale yeast pitching temps are typically around 68 degrees. When yeast begin fermentation above 70 they begin to produce esters that affect the flavor in adverse ways typically. If fermentation takes place around 80 degrees you will produce byproducts that can cause headaches after drinking.

Yeast is extremely temperature dependent. Will it ferment at where you pitched, probably, will the flavors be ideal, probably not but you will have made beer.

Chock this up learning something new today. Next time get that wort down to 65 degrees and then pitch and try to hold it below 70 through out your ferment and you will see a marked difference in your beers.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby carpediem50 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:53 pm

BrewBum wrote:Optimal ale yeast pitching temps are typically around 68 degrees. When yeast begin fermentation above 70 they begin to produce esters that affect the flavor in adverse ways typically. If fermentation takes place around 80 degrees you will produce byproducts that can cause headaches after drinking.

Yeast is extremely temperature dependent. Will it ferment at where you pitched, probably, will the flavors be ideal, probably not but you will have made beer.

Chock this up learning something new today. Next time get that wort down to 65 degrees and then pitch and try to hold it below 70 through out your ferment and you will see a marked difference in your beers.


Thank you. Yea, it was stupid of me to not have ice like I have in the past (this was my third brew, but its been like 6 months since my last one).

The top, where I was taking the temp, was close to 90º but the bottom half of the bucket felt as cold as the ice water. I guess I'll hope that after I pitched it, sealed it up, took it upstairs and set it in the spare bedroom, that it mixed itself up enough that the average temp dropped down to 75 or so. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby BrewBock » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:16 pm

carpediem50 wrote:I was making an IPA from a kit from grape and granary. Everything took a little longer than I expected. I also forgot to get ice or refrigerate the water to add once the boil was done, so it was taking forever to cool. It was late, and I was exhausted, so I went ahead and pitched the yeast when the wort at the top of the fermenting bucket was about 90º. I'm SURE the wort was cooler at the bottom because the bucket had been sitting in a sink full of ice water for an hour by then.

I was using liquid Wyeast 1098 (I think that's the number). Yes, I popped the envelope inside the envelope, and it had a good 3.5 hours to 'swell' before I pitched it.

Think I'll be ok? I was just so tired and sick of waiting, I knowingly made the mistake so I could get to bed.


I've made worst mistakes than the one you noted here, if it seemed i was laughing at your mistake i wasn't i was laughing at the wise crack brandon made about needing advil/tylenol.

On a serious note just like brewbum said you don't want your fermentation to run too warm because you will produce a greater amount of esters an higher alcohols. Not to be confused with high alcohol content, in fact, higher alcohols are known as fusel alcohols and like brewbum said when consumed they can be attributed to precursors in headaches.

Who knows, take note of the finished product. Taste to see if it has a higher ester content than usual. Since particulates settle to the bottom anyways you might have avoided any negative effects and you mentioned a drastic temp difference between the bottom layer and the top layer this might have helped. Again this is all speculation, so i say test it out for yourself and let the bier ferment out and post the results.


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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby dogbalou » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:39 pm

It'll be fine. Yeast can survive in anything below 100. It may have a little more of a fruity smell than a beer pitched near the low end of the optimum range but for an IPA I think this could give it more character, kind of like an Ol' English Ale.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby majorvices » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:27 am

dogbalou wrote:It'll be fine. Yeast can survive in anything below 100. It may have a little more of a fruity smell than a beer pitched near the low end of the optimum range but for an IPA I think this could give it more character, kind of like an Ol' English Ale.


No, don't believe it will "just be fine". Warm fermentation temps and warm pitching temps cause a lot more harm than just a little fruity character. It causes nasty tasting, head ache causing, foam destroying fusels. And the fruity flavor it will cause will probably not be very enjoyable. I mean, we don't want the guy to stress over his beer because the deed is done and you can't fix this. But pitching at 90 degrees (or anything over 68) is something you should try to avoid at all costs. Fermentation, including temp control, is every bit as important as sanitation.

I agree that at times we should take a RDWHAHB approach, but 90 degree pitching temps are not one of those times. That's a huge mistake and, when you do this (as probably most of us have) its best to learn from it so as not to do it again. I certainly wouldn't say "it will be fine".
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby dogbalou » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:15 pm

I understand what you are saying. For a competition beer, yes this would be a big mistake but for homebrew I think we might be splitting hairs. In my early days of homebrewing I often pitched around 90 knowing that this was a routine temp for making bread starters. I would not ferment at 90, I would continue to slow it down a couple of degrees an hour to the optimum range. My beers were very drinkable, I shared them with other people and they enjoyed them as well. I never had headaches or hangovers, although I would never drink more than 2 or three at a time. If you like fruity esters, and I like them once in a while in a nice IPA, this is one way to do it.
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby catsdrinkbeer » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:25 pm

I disagree with the bread yeast analogy, it is literally a different animal.
The beer will be drinkable, but it's amazing what we can convince ourselves is 'good' when we make it ourselves.
It's not the end of the world, but something to to work on for the next batch.

On another topic, I have to gloat I'm about a short half hour drive to the Rogue brewer in Newport, OR.
Hope to get a growler filled tomorrow!

PS-the best way to get fruity esters is to use an appropriate yeast at the appropriate temps. IMHO
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Re: Pitched yeast @ 90º, am I ok?

Postby majorvices » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:46 pm

dogbalou wrote:I understand what you are saying. For a competition beer, yes this would be a big mistake but for homebrew I think we might be splitting hairs.


Man, you totally lost me here. I don't get that at all. I expect my beer to be as good or better than store bought (or "competition" beers") Otherwise, what's the point? When you make spaghetti do you say "well, that's pretty good for homemade spaghetti but Chef Boy R D has it beat." :?

Sorry, I don't make beer for competition very often but if it isn't as good or better than something I can buy at the grocery store I don't see the point.

That said, some people just brew for the novelty of brewing and never really develop the skill. That's not my goal. I expect excellent beer. Nothing less. Otherwise, the entire venture would be a waste of time.
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